Posts by cognizant dissident

I'm such an insomniac! I have major drugs to knock myself out but somedays I like to stay up. It's my only quiet time with no one to interupt me or bug me.

Cog

19

One Scripture that proves WTS false and how

by crazies in

list one verse or verses that can prove wts false and how.

i'll start:.

(matthew 24:23-28) 23 "then if anyone says to you, look!

cognizant dissident

(Galations 5:22,23) On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

WTBTS: The 5 measures of spirituality are meeting attendance, participation in Ministry School, field service, personal study, and prayer. These things are the LAW!

Cog

37

Jehovah baby: you were my better-half, but just an invitation to the blues.

by tetrapod.sapien in

jw
friends

losing jehovah was like losing a girlfriend that you loved.

you barely had time to flinch when you found out that she had been sleeping with all your friends and stealing your records to pawn off.

that you had just been another sucker on the vine.. when jehovah dumps you, you start looking at yourself longer and harder, and wondering what it was about him that you found in yourself, until all you see there in the reflection is just yourself, dancing with an imaginary hand and waistline.. when jehovah was gone, and the war was over, i realized that all the things that had made me "good", and "moral", and "hate what was bad", didn't mean anything to me anymore.

cognizant dissident

Tetrapod

You are an unbelievable writer! I am waiting for a copy of your book. Save one for me.

Cog

30

Is It That Big Of A Deal To Die At Armageddon???

by minimus in

jw
friends

we're all gonna go someday.

for witnesses, they don't even have to worry about eternal hell----so what's the big deal?

cognizant dissident

tetrapod

are you still here man? You didn't reply to my last pm and now that I've seen your post I'm getting worried...

23

I want to say...

by robhic in

i have been reading this forum for a couple of years now and i know this point has been made before but i truly think it needs to be repeated.

i am not, nor ever was, a jw and only arrived here to acquaint myself with "jw-ism" because a friend had joined up.

i needed to study up on stuff so i'd be prepared to (try to) understand where she was coming from with all her new oddball dogmas.

cognizant dissident

I've often asked myself this same question. My father was in the navy as a low level sailor when he became a witness the year I was born. He was tested and found to have the highest IQ in his company and was marked for officer training. He gave that up to become a JW. I also personally knew two surgeons who became witnesses later in life after successful careers in medicine. One testified regularly for the witnesses in blood transfusion cases. The other had an almost all witness practice. Trust me, you don't get through medical school without any smarts. Myself, I won numerous scientific achievement awards and scholarships in high school. Logical thinking was my strongpoint. Yet college wasn't even on my radar. I secretly wanted to go but I had been so thoroughly indoctrinated that a degree was like garbage compared to the "truth" and only greedy, selfish and materialistic people pursued them when they could be out saving their neighbours lives from Armageddon that it was something I never pursued or even voiced to my parents or anyone. I knew there would have been no support. I was so uneducated about the world that I didn't even know how to apply to a college or that there were such things as student loans. It took me 20 years to be able to slowly, piece by piece, breakdown that destructive, dream squashing mindset and figure out that I was broke, bankrupt and had no skills and I needed to get an education and a job, not go pioneering and wait for Jehovah to save me. I may have been academically "smart" but as far as knowing how the world works and understanding that other people, including my parents and the society, didn't know what was best for me, I was as dumb as the come! I also loved my family so much that I was willing to sacrifice my own happiness not to go against them. Self sacrifice is second nature to JW's. Many of us were weaned on it. Also, the more passive the temperament of a person is the more difficult it will be for them to stand up to the thought police and bullies in the organization. Some people can learn to live with a lot more cognitive dissonance than others of a more rebellious, outspoken nature are able to. So that offers an explanation for many people who were raised as witnesses. The intelligence was always there but it was not until they were exposed to the tools (education and knowledge of other paradigms) that they were able to "understand" how circular and illogical the type of reasoning produced by the Watchtower society really is. As you know, the society takes great pains to make sure that as few witnesses as possible are ever exposed to an alternative view of the world.

However, what attracts doctors and lawyers and engineers and other brilliant people into the the "truth". After much observation, I have come to believe there are 3 or 4 basic personality "types" who are attracted to the organization as adults. One "type" I frequently see tends to be very gullible and somewhat naive. They have a history of believing everything they hear or read. They can often be found following the latest pyramid scheme, the latest fad diet, the latest quack cure or quoting from the latest Awake magazine or Enquirer as if they were credible educational journals. I would place my mother and my stepmother in those categories.

My father, I believe, is "Type #2" (probably also Knathan Knorr). He is intelligent, disciplined and he loves to deal in moral absolutes. Everything is either black or white, right or wrong. He despises moral weakness or physical weakness of any kind. He is very attracted to the rules and regimentation of the witness lifestyle. If he wasn't a witness he would still be in the military. His type can often be found reading the organized to accomplish our ministry book with the zeal of a general going into battle or berating the rest of the more undisciplined soldiers for missing the meeting because of their latest illness. (see type 1 above) They love to whip the rest of us slackers into shape. Some of the lawyers may fall into this type as well. Their very legalistic in their thinking. The females of this type can be found pioneering, giving great talks at assemblies and often looking down their nose at those spiritually weaker themselves. They are all willing to suspend logic for the payoff of feeling righteous and superior to everyone else around them. In Bible times, they were known as Pharicees (did I spell that right?)

Type # 3 are basically nice, honest hearted, loving people who are somewhat altruistic and idealistic in nature. They remarkably resemble true Christians. You can often find them visiting the ill, writing encouraging letters to brothers in prison and anonymously buying groceries for the poor. They may be as intelligent and as brilliant as the next person. What keeps them in the organization is their desire for world peace, everlasting life and utopia. They want that wonderful reward for themselves, their family and their neighbours so badly that they are willing to suspend credulity and logic for the comfort of a never fulfilled hope. You might find some witness doctors in this catergory. I like to put myself here because it seems like the best category but others may have a different opinion of where I should be put!

This list is by no means complete and there may be various subtypes in each category. I'm still working on a profile for Type 4. It's going to be composed of those misfits and rebels who don't fit into the other 3 types. They can often be found posting their radical views on JWD and other internet forums. Please feel free to add suggestions to my list if you noticed any other types I might be missing

Cog

135

My Dad died this evening

by Mulan in

jw
friends

i thought i would let you know that my dad, passed away a little while ago, tonight, january 23. they called me at 6pm to tell me.

he had been failing rapidly for the past month, and had completely lost his hearing and was totally blind.

the dementia was extreme too, and he still knew me on thursday, but didn't wake up to know me in the following days.

cognizant dissident

Hi Mulan

I'm fairly new and don't really know you but I just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss. Even though your father was 92 and had a good run, even though he died with his family and loved ones around him, even though he is no longer in the prison of dementia, death is still a big loss and it hurts big time. I was a nurse too for a couple of years, and there really is nothing to be said that makes it better. Sharing your pain with others who have been there and care helps to ease it a little. So keep talking about your dad whenever you feel the need.

cog

38

Society's recall of older books

by rekless in

jw
friends

does anybody remember when the wtbts ask all the congregations to bring back all the old outdated books.

i think it was in the late eighties.

there was an announcement from the podium, return old books so they could be returned to new york.. i was too lazy to go through my books and take them in.

cognizant dissident

I was df'd and then reinstated in the early eighties. The announcement was made after 1985 because I remember very clearly sitting at the KH with my husband when the request was made. I paid very careful attention at every meeting because I was still in my "trying to prove how repentant and good I can be" phase. Anyway, the reason given in our congregation was "there is a wealth of historical information and knowledge in these older books and we should cooperate with this request so that they can be kept in the library where everyone in the congregation, including newer ones can have access to them and enjoy them." Sounds great! And they were kept in the library for a number of years. Then a request was made that no one should just go and help themselves to the books on their own but they should sign them out with an elder so they could keep track of them. Then it was requested that they only be researched in the library and not taken out at all as some were not being returned. Still, sounds innocent enough. Later the books quietly disappeared out of the library, no announcement or explanation given. I asked my husband where they had gone because I was bored sitting in the library with my very noisy baby every meeting and I wanted something to read and he told me they had gotten rid of them to make room during the renovation. I had no idea this was going on in every KH and so thought nothing sinister was afoot.

Now, I am inclined to believe this was a very gradual reclaiming of the old information to take it out of circulation. I have a real love of history and old books and literature and decided on my own to add to my classical collection by collecting all the society's old books on e-bay. I found a first edition of Russell's Divine Plan of the ages on the internet. The one with the pyramid on the cover and the chart in side.

When I showed it to my closest friend she told me that we were not supposed to read those old books. I asked her why not as it was a part of our history. She told me her father, who is also a PO in the cong told her the society had told the elders not to encourage the publishers to read them as too many people were becoming confused about their faith. This was news to me, but sure enough, anytime I showed an elder my "rare find" they would get this surprised look on their face and show a definite lack of interest in looking at the book. This was just a couple of years ago. Now I am more determined than ever to collect some of the earlier writings. If I could only get my hands on all those bound KM's and mags my father used to keep. Although, I am sure he has dutifully turned them all in. He does love to follow the rules.

CD

57

Anyone got their meeting tonight?

by stillAwitness in

.

well i got mine at 7:30.

.

cognizant dissident

Serendipity: your post made me lol because I am a 42 year old spiritually weak mother with an undisclosed health problem and absolutely no elders or anyone else for that matter ever comes and bothers me. I think it's cause they might have to actually do something to help me! lol

Atypical: And my husband is currently a MS of the "go along to get along" variety so he pretty much keeps everything I've told him about how I really feel to himself. Although every now and then, I hear him expressing opinions on the society that I know he picked up from me. I tell him he better watch it or he will get df'd for being an apostate.

43

"Where else are we to go?" - How to answer?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

hey guys,.

assume you're talking to a faithful, indoctrinated jw that is only now getting some doubts rolling in his head.

let's say that he doesn't have much info yet, hasn't done much research, and is pretty scared of anything that smells "apostate".

cognizant dissident

I agree with jwfacts. If they ask you that question, they may not be ready to take the step of questioning the FDS. I think of leaving the organization as a series of steps, first of which is to simply become aware that all may not be as it should within the org. The second step may be finding the courage to voice those doubts aloud to someone. Some may never go even this far, preferring to go along with the majority and suffer in silence. Others may leave the org but remain Christian, some may question whether the Bible really is the word of God, some may take it a step further and re-examine whether they believe in God at all. It is a progressive journey and everyone will make it at their own pace, some will make it halfway and others will never make it at all. The journey is a personal one and has very little to do with what you say to them but more to do with their readiness to listen and change.

Personally, I am still in the org but have expressed my doubts and concerns to my MS husband. He agreed with me that there were many things that were wrong and asked me if I wasn't a witness, where would I go? My response was "I can go wherever I choose. Or for that matter, why do I have to go anywhere at all? Why can't I just stay where I am, enjoy my work, take care of my family, choose to help others as I have the time and opportunity, express my sincere opinions freely and decide for myself how I will spend my time? Needless to say, he had no answer for that kind of simple common sense and has since pretty much left me to my own counsel. I have even on occassion caught him parroting some of my observations of the problems within the org as if they were his own. So, I'm planting my own seeds. Who knows how far they will grow?